[imText1]To celebrate its first anniversary, The DailyNK conducted a New Year Special Interview with Hwang Jang Yop, the chairman of the North Korean Democratization Alliance.
In the special interview on December 27th with Han Ki Hong, the president of the Network for North Korean Democracy and Human Rights (NKnet), as the interviewer, Hwang frankly expressed his opinions on the overall North Korean issues such as human rights, the nuclear issues, the six-party talks, the future of the North Korean regime, and the South Korean policy towards North Korea.
Hwang claimed that first of all, the North Korean human rights problem has to be discussed despite the significance of the North Korean nuclear issue, saying that the basis for resolving the North Korean problems lies in dealing with North Korean human rights.
Hwang also pointed out that since China holds Kim Jong Il’s thread of life, without the agreement of China it will be hard to resolve the nuclear issue. The following are the details of the special interview.
North Korean human rights problem
Han Ki Hong (hereafter referred as “Han”): Running after the adoptions in the United Nations Commission on Human Rights consecutively for three years from 2003, the United Nations General Assembly passed the North Korean Human Rights Resolution with overwhelming support this year. Plus, through the Seoul International Human Rights Conference held last December, North Korean human rights became the issue that could be ignored. Could you share your opinion on the implications of North Korean human rights among the overall North Korean problems?
Hwang Jang Yop (hereafter referred as “Hwang”): It was a really delightful event for us that the human rights problem in North Korea was enthusiastically discussed at the world conference. Because North Korean human rights are nonexistent, despite other political priorities such as the nuclear problem, human rights must be discussed first.
Nuclear war ultimately means killing people. Although North Korea is not using nuclear weapons (to kill people) yet, the North Korean regime is starving the people to death. Also, in the situation of throwing the whole country into prison by the liquidation of human rights, what useful is to talk about the nuclear issue? Such (human rights) criminal activities are taking place in present North Korea and not discussing these human rights is the same as accepting their criminal activities.
”The Seoul Summit: promoting human rights in North Korea” held in 2005 was the most significant one among historic events. I appreciate the important roles our fellows played in the conference.
Han: Some power groups in South Korea criticize that bringing up the North Korean human rights issue was derived from the conservatives of South Korea, Japan, and the U.S. who seek to overthrow the North Korean regime. Moreover, when we bring up the human rights issue, they fight us back saying, “do you want a war?” What do you think about their refutation?
Hwang: That is wrong to think that way. Rather, drawing out the human rights issue is an act of preventing and resisting war. It is ridiculous to think that speaking up about it would lead to a war. So-called “War Threat Theory” is not worth considering. To prevent war, it is important to strengthen the alliance between South Korea and the U.S. and ensure their security system.
Not commenting on the human rights issue in favor of the Kim Jong Il regime that has been posing a nuclear threat is just like supporting the bad use of it only to maintain his regime.
Han: Some also claim that for the North Koreans, human rights is a domestic issue, thus we must leave it up to them to resolve it domestically rather than make it problematic outside. Also, if there are discussions outside, it would only aggravate North Korean human rights rather than improve them, with the result of stronger suppression of the Kim Jong Il regime. What do you think about such claims?
Hwang: The human rights issue is not an inside or an outside matter. For it is an issue that world society feels sympathetic to all together, it could not be more vital.
The nuclear issue and the six-party talks
Han: Last October, the Beijing Joint Statement was made that North Korea promised to abandon all the present nuclear weapons and programs while the U.S. ensured that no attack against North Korea would occur. However, there is the opinion that after North Korea’s demand for light-water reactors and more recently, for the lifting of economic sanctions, the six-party talks came to be virtually terminated. What do you think the prospects are, by and large of the nuclear issue and the six-party talks?
Hwang: The nuclear issue came from the comprehensive “North Korean problems”. With a perspective of resolving the whole problem, including the nuclear issue, the only fundamental solution is to take out the despotic Kim Jong Il regime. In practice, if North Korea pursues reformation and liberalization in the same manner as China did, the dictatorship would be removed, market economics would be introduced. After that, while the nuclear issue would be automatically resolved, Korea’s unification would successively come true.
However, it is a stern reality that North Korea has refused Chinese recommendations of reformation and liberalization. Notwithstanding it, to absorb North Korea is not adequate due to the absolute differences between the two Koreas economically, culturally, politically and ideologically.
Because North Korea is not likely to implement the reformation and liberalization by themselves, North Korean defectors also are not concerned with the six-party talks. Finally, the nuclear issue and the six-party talks do not seem to be helpful for the overall North Korean issues.
Han: What you said is that at the current stage the most proper solution for the North Korean issues is not war but international pressure. Particularly, you mentioned that cooperation between China and the U.S. is most crucial. Then, what do you think the real role of China is and what do you predict would make China vigorously participate in the North Korean problems?
Hwang: It is hard to infer. It is China holding Kim Jong Il’s thread of life. Without an agreement with China, there is no way to take North Korea towards reformation and liberalization. Despite the powerful economical and political effects of the U.S., if there is no approval from China, then the North Korean problems would unlikely be solved. China has respected the U.S. But it is not helpful for drawing out a practical solution. If China cooperates with the U.S., the problems would be easily resolved.
If China is eager to participate in drawing North Korea towards reformation and liberalization, the U.S. must not demand anything. There could be a practical solution only if the U.S. vigorously cooperates with China. However, because the U.S has only emphasized the nuclear issue, there is no fundamental solution but just a ‘bargaining’.
Han: Regarding the recent changes, some suspect that in consideration of a future conflicting situation, China sets a role for North Korea to play. If so, I could infer that China is less likely to be involved in the North Korean issues. What do you think about it?
Hwang: Conflicts between the U.S. and China are just a guess. The most rational solution is cooperation between them. South Korea has to constructively support their cooperation to solve the North Korean problems. If it comes true, the North Korean issues would be settled down.
Han: The U.S. pressure on North Korea’s illegal activities such as drug smuggling and counterfeit money has been stronger. Could this pressure achieve something effective in terms of the North Korean issues? What is the focal point of the U.S. policy towards North Korea in 2006?
Hwang: Drug smuggling and counterfeit money are irrelevant matters to the pressure on North Korea. Because they are international matters, international society would strictly cope with them. The real problem is not taking up the matters, but pushing the North Korean human rights issue under the rug.
Kim Jong Il’s succession
Han: During the past two or three years, there has been a rumor of North Korea’s succeeding structure. Some experts in South Korea suggest that succession was determined in the line of Koh Young Hee, comparing it with the Kim Il Sung-Kim Jong Il’s succession in the‘Mother educating document learning Koh Young Hee’ formulated with the North Korean military party as the central figure. However, the press also recently released that Kim Jong Il himself prohibited the talks about the succession. What perspective do we have about that?
Hwang: Some people only concentrate on who is the successor rather than the fact that succession is a feudal system, an undemocratic and nationally rebellious action. The North Korean people have to be hosts of the ‘regime’. Therefore, there could be no greater sin than succession. Succession is a worthless matter, because of its fundamental fallacy.
Moreover, succession is not helpful in maintaining the despotic Kim Jong Il regime. Now, only if the Kim Jong Il regime collapsed, the autocratic system could not remain any longer.
Han: The South Korean policy towards North Korea has not been changing. Particularly, the excessive ‘Sun-Shine policy’ has been more and more rigid. The Mt. Geumgang tour business and the two Korean economic cooperation would not likely to bring about fundamental changes in North Korea, but rather cause preservation of the North Korean regime. Currently, South Korean financial assistance to North Korea is bitterly at issue of whether it is the cost for peace-upkeep or one for maintaining the regime. Could you evaluate this? Plus, what do you think the intention of North Korea is, which demanded developmental support, not humanitarian assistance?
Hwang: The expense for peace-upkeep is a worthless object for discussion. At the same time, it does not need to be logically solved. Because the Kim Jong Il regime is undemocratic and unethical, we just have to quickly remove it. On the other hand, whether we would liberate North Korea or not is a vital issue.
Han: Roh Moo Hyun’s government and followers of North Korea in the Uri Party have been overstepping the bounds. Could you tell us about consequences of the growing pro-North Korea and anti-U.S. power?
Hwang: Democracy of South Korea has been at stake since the pro-North Korea and anti-U.S. power grew, who insists on a national cooperation. We strongly have to response against the power propagating North Korea as a paradise.
Han: It seems that our society in earnest confronts ideological conflicts driven by the national cooperation propaganda. However, it appears that the real strategy of North Korea towards South Korea did not change. Could you also tell us about that?
Hwang: Some people appear absurd to debate about whether it is the national cooperation or the South Korea-U.S. cooperation. However, whether they are based on democracy or not is a desirable discussion. Without democracy, they are just like deluding the people with a deceptive intrigue. Was there national cooperation when the Korean War called 6.25 broke out and North Korea attacked? Whether they are democratic or not is vital. Without it, they are just tricking the people.
Globalization and world democratization
Han: World democratization shows that dictatorship is not compatible with democracy in the end. The most important thing is to strengthen world alliance against dictatorship. Is the position and role of the U.N. an alternative? And, regarding the North Korean issues, the positions and roles of the U.S. and China seem to work significantly. Could you show a short and middle term prospective for world democratization as well as the roles of the U.S. and China?
Hwang: We need to see the North Korean problems based on world democratization. For world democratization, the U.S. and China have to cooperate closely. Though there are some interest conflicts between them, they have to cooperate. Only after this will the North Korean problems be resolved. Some people have a wrong perspective in claiming an encircling strategy to continue checking China, because of the Chinese economical growth. However, China is different from the former Soviet Union.
We must support China well advancing its reformation and liberalization, and advance together for world democratization. China forming a union with the Kim Jong Il regime has to be contained and be engaged with world solidarity putting pressure on it, to prevent deterioration of world democratization. First, we have to pursue North Korean democratization, and then world democratization. It is the very strategy conforming North Korean democratization to world democratization.
Han: Lastly, could you comment on the North Korean democratization Movement and the DailyNK readers?
Hwang: You, the Korean youth working for the North Korean democratization Movement and North Korean defectors, please first watch out that in South Korea the pro-North Korea and anti-U.S. power reverses democracy, before pursuing democratization of North Korea. For North Korean democratization, we have to reinforce the South Korea-U.S. cooperation system more. And it is essential that the defectors ally with the democrats in South Korea. If so, North Korean democratization is possible. Considering South Korea as a firm democratic fortress, we have to approach the North Korean issues. Southeast Asia countries once less developed than North Korea have gotten better than it through reformation and liberalization.
Now the most significant problem is that the North Korean people do not know that Kim Jong Il does not carry out reformation and liberalization in order to keep to of his despotic regime. Also, that the South Korean people do not realize it because of his deceptive tactics and an urge of the pro-North Korean power. We have to quickly solve this problem first.
