A unified Korean Peninsula is something we
all dream about. It is May 15th and it’s time for “Unification Table Talk.” We
have a special guest today. Up until one year ago, Kim Chang Soo was living in
North Korea and listening to shortwave radio broadcasts from South Korea. We
invited Mr. Lee to discuss the meaning and importance of such radio broadcasts,
as they relate both to his personal journey and to those around him. Without
further ado, please welcome Mr. Lee!
1. It’s
a pleasure to meet you and such an honor to speak with you today. I’ve
personally been contributing to radio broadcasts targeted at North Korea for
three years now, so I’m extremely curious what kind of people listen to our
broadcasts, and what kind of meaning and effect these broadcasts have for our
listeners. So, you said that you listened to our broadcast while in the North,
correct? What kinds of programs did you listen to specifically?
I mostly listened to the programs that
describe the true reality of North Korea. They talked about how people in South
Korea were actually living quite well compared to us. There were also
testimonies from defectors as well. I listened to lots of those. I learned
about how those who defect to South Korea receive free aid and support.
2. When you were in North Korea, what did
you mainly listen to?
I mostly listened to news programs. I was
interested in anything related to politics and anything that explained the
global situation. If one intends to leave North Korea, these are things they
should know, right? But North Korea is extremely isolated, so we don’t know the
first thing about any of that. That’s why these broadcasts are so important. I
learned not only about politics and South Korea, but also about the true state
of North Korea.
3. When
do you first tune in to these broadcasts? What was your motive for seeking them
out?
It was about 2003, I believe. I don’t think
I really had much of a motive. Rather, I simply purchased a radio and I was
playing around with the frequencies. I came across a South Korean broadcast and
listened because I was curious. After that I was hooked, I kept coming back to
learn more about politics.
4. I
imagine that the first time you learned the true nature of North Korea and the
Kim regime, you’d be rather surprised. Since North Korean authorities engage in
wide scale propaganda and shield residents from the truth, it must be shocking
to hear a voice come through over the radio with an alternative depiction of
world events. When you learned about how the world views the North Korean
authorities, how did that make you feel?
At first, I didn’t trust the broadcasts. I
doubted that the North Korean authorities were capable of tricking us to that
degree. As time wore on, I gradually came to understand little by little that
the regime was tricking us, that the political procedures were nothing but
empty and vain ceremonies. Going to China a couple of times also helped me to
understand the truth a bit easier. We’re constantly told that South Chosun
[South Korea] is a rotting and sick capitalist society, when in fact, the
opposite is true. North Korean residents are starving to death, but the
authorities and upper classes continue to squeeze milk from a stone, working us
to death. It’s the same now. Kim Jong Un is closing down the border so that
defectors can’t get out. He’s working us peasants into the ground so that the
top levels can live well.
5. As
far as we understand, listening to foreign broadcasts is illegal in North
Korea. If you get caught listening, you might even be punished. Given the high
stakes, why were you still willing to risk it?
I haven’t been officially charged, but I
have been exposed to danger because of it. Our friend got a rather large radio
from China with a freely moving dial [the necessary but illegal feature that
allows one to access foreign broadcasts]. He was listening to it when agents
from the Ministry of People’s Security came in and saw it. They noticed that
the frequency dial wasn’t locked into place as it should be, so they
confiscated it. After that, the friend went to them with three bundles of ten
cigarette packs and gave it to the officers as a bribe. He ended up getting
clemency and, eventually, got his radio back.
6. So these days, people aren’t really
getting strict punishments for listening to foreign broadcasts?
We still get word of people receiving
severe punishments. When I got sent to a labor camp, I saw people who got
caught listening to the radio and were sentenced to six months of labor there.
It’s the same even now. Members of the Ministry of People’s Security obviously
know about the reality of North Korea, but they get orders from the top to bust
people for listening so there’s nothing they can do about it. There’s no other
choice for them, is there? So everyone just puts their radio under a blanket
and listens in secret.
7. There
must be a reason people are willing to risk potentially severe punishments in
order to listen to the broadcasts. What do you think that reason is?
A lot of people listen simply out of
curiosity. Some people want to know the truth about the political situation.
Some people listen because they want information about how to escape. They want
to know the truth about how they can make a living if they really do make it to
South Korea. I also listened to Open Radio for North Korea broadcast and got a
phone number from it [this phone number refers to a broker or NGO to help him
defect. The odds of being caught in China and repatriated are extremely high
without such help].
7-1. Can you explain a bit about that
process for us?
I heard on Free North Korea Radio that the
phone number started with 02. I remember because that area code is similar to
the one from Pyongyang. I was trying to listen clearly to listen to the phone
number in its completion but there is radio jamming [undertaken by the North
Korean government to block inbound foreign broadcasts], so the broadcasts can
be fuzzy. It took me 6 months to verify that phone number. I wanted to be very
careful and make sure I got it perfect. That’s why it’s essential for the
broadcasters to say the phone number slowly and clearly many times over and
over. That way, people can more easily go to North Hamkyung Province, Yangkang
Province, and Hyesan to connect with brokers.
7-2. Was there anything else that was hard
for you to make out while listening to the broadcasts?
The announcers talk a bit fast. If they
were speaking the Pyongyang dialect it would be fine, even with hissing sounds
of the radio jamming. But the announcer’s speech patterns, as you know, are a
bit different from our dialect. So the combination of all these factors – the
hissing sound, the fast talking, the loan-words from English, and the unusual
dialect – can make it hard to understand sometimes. Most importantly, I wish
they would say the phone number in excruciatingly slow and clear speech.
Honestly, it’s hard for the listeners to
leave their hometowns. It was the same for me. I had a few chances over the
years, but I couldn’t leave my hometown. Worrying about family is the
predominant factor holding people back. The first step is to make the decision
to leave.
8. Do
you know of any instances of people who decided to leave after listening to the
broadcasts?
Yeah, sure. That happens from time to time.
I am definitely one example. But even if you make the decision and get over to
China, you still need someone to contact. You need someone in China to help you
out.
9. Do
you think that as more North Korean people listen to foreign broadcasts, there
is a higher chance that they will perceive the need for economic reform and
feel the desire for democratization?
Absolutely. Even now people feel the need
for change. In the road ahead as well, people are going to continue to think
that North Korea needs to open up. But listening to the broadcast alone isn’t
enough to convince you just how well South Koreans are living. I learned that
fact by coming here.
10. After listening to the
broadcasts what kind of expectations did you have about South Korea?
I thought it would be about 10 years more
advanced than China. When I came here directly and say for my own eyes, I was
in a state of shock. In North Korea, there are a few buses and cars on the
road, but it’s hard for us normal people to actually ride them. There are
plenty of people who die before they get a chance to ride a single time. But
over here, things are different. It’s easy for people to get around on cars and
buses. Even when you’re going just a little bit down the road, you can hop on a
bus!
11. What percent of North
Koreans do you think are listening to foreign broadcasts?
I bet that it’s about 30 or 40%. Comparing
men vs. women, I’d say more men tend to listen. Judging by age group, I’d say
that young people tend to enjoy listening and that 30 to 50 year olds enjoy as
well. I think the Party cadres are the ones who probably listen the most.
12. What sorts of broadcast do
the listeners enjoy?
Across the board, I’d say that politics and
news are the big ones. Lots of people listen to find out news about South
Korea. Even the kids are walking around singing songs that come from South
Korea. When we go hiking, you can hear a song about packing Ddeok [rice cake]
that comes from South Korea. That’s how many people are listening these
days. The kids are talking about how Kim Jong Un surpassed 110 kg [which was
the subject of a broadcast from a South Korean station].
13. A lot of South Korean
dramas and movies are also entering into North Korea these days. Do you think
this kind of media has a different role when compared to the broadcasts?
The way I see it, kids like that kind of
stuff from the time they’re teenagers until they’re about 30. But the
authorities are trying to block off any form of influence from capitalist
ideas, so they’ve been clamping down on those sorts of dramas. I don’t really
care much for dramas. Now that I’m here, I don’t watch any either. People over
30 tend to enjoy the radio more. And a good amount of those radio listeners,
tend to go for the news content. These days the electricity shortage is severe,
so people buy batteries for the radio so they can tune in undetected.
14. So you said there were a
lot of people in your network of friends and acquaintances who listened?
Yeah, there are plenty, but they stayed on
the quiet side about it. If someone were to say, “I listened to a foreign
broadcast yesterday,” they’d make everyone nervous. We don’t really talk to
each other openly about it, but there are ways of telling. With close friends,
it’s possible to get together and listen. For example, when Ban Ki Moon became
Secretary General of the UN, we were all listening. I don’t know if people were
punished then, but we were listening. We also hear foreign broadcasts featuring
discussions about North Korea.
15. Using the radio is
also a good tool for judging Kim Jong Un’s regime. How did your opinion change
about that as you learned more?
Before I listened to the radio, I didn’t
have any understanding of politics or the world in general. I simply knew that
South Koreans were living slightly better than we were. After listening, I came
to realize that North Korea is an isolationist country that restricts the free
flow of information. I guess I could now be labeled a traitor to the regime,
right? People need to be listening to their radios, they need that information.
16. After listening, you
learned the truth about South Korea and the North Korean authorities. Based on
that information, you decided to leave. Do you have any regrets?
No, I don’t have any regrets. I only wish I
found out sooner and came earlier. It was impossible for me to have the courage
to decide to leave before listening to the radio. I want to tell all those who
are listening now and having trouble deciding to make a firm commitment and
come to South Korea. This is really a country built to help its citizens. North
Korea is said to supposedly be a country dedicated to its people, but South
Korea really is a country politically designed to benefit its people.
17. What message would you like to relay to
our listeners in North Korea?
I just want to tell them that everything
we’ve said today is true. This isn’t a fiction. I’m speaking to you from the
heart.
18. What kind of role do you think pirate
radio stations can play in the unification of North and South Korea?
This station has a huge effect. For the
sake of unification, please continue to do the important work you do here.
This has been “Unification Table Talk.”
Today we spoke with pirate radio listener Kim Chang Soo, who defected from
North Korea. He explained to us what sort of meaning these broadcasts have for
North Koreans and what sort of role they can have in unification. Thanks for
coming and opening up about this for us today!
